As much as I love debating, chapping asses and "being that guy," I know my place. I know when I don't know what I am talking about, which is why when conversations gravitate towards subject I nothing about such as or general proper etiquette, I bow out quickly. The funny thing is that my previously aforementioned acknowledgment won't keeping me from interjecting a quick, often ill-informed, comment about organized religion and how I think it is a farce. I guess what I am saying is that I know I have my place. Balls deep in an impetuous argument involving politics is not one of them.
Below is a running transcript between Mallard who happens to be a die-hard Ron Paul supporter and her friend Alexis who supports O'bama. Mel's dialogue will be displayed in bold. I'll be posting a new post shortly after this so stay tuned.
Actually, he did suggest it and he even drew up a plan in how our country would help wipe out poverty in the whole world. With .7% of the nation's gross that isn't his to spend over the span of ten or fifteen years at a whopping $845 billion... that's how he would do it.
"I guess it's like this: Ron Paul's policies are poorly conceived. Restricting the power of the federal government and its ability to regulate business would only serve to further empower the wealthiest."
But don't you see that these greedy corporations are in bed with these politicians? Why do they keep getting such amazing tax cuts and benefits? Who's writing up these clauses and bills? The politicians!! By continuously voting for a politician that is the same as any other politician (lets refer to our friends, The Who, on this one, "Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss."), YOU are further lining the pockets of the corporations you so strongly oppose.
"I'm not saying things aren't fucked, not by a long shot. I just think we disagree on the actual source of corruption. We were just reading about "the next great depression", because of all this fucked up Sub Prime loan bullshit. It's a perfect example of the private sector eating itself. A few companies will improve their quarterly profits and wind up sinking the entire US economy. The CEOs responsible will probably get huge raises and retire before the shit even hits the fan 6 months later. And I have to think that there needs to be some power there to step in at some point and say, "You can't do that." And the federal government gives (or should give) us a voice in these matters."
I love it, I absolutely love it! You are citing Ron Paul! You're right, it is a few private companies running this country into a depression, the Federal Reserve, namely. They were/are printing out paper money by the tons and calling it valuable all the while encouraging the banks to ease up on their loan requirements to let more and more people get into debt that they couldn't afford. Meanwhile, needing to print more and more money to keep up with the demand. And still, they are printing more and more pieces of paper to "stimulate the economy" and encourage you and I, at 600 bucks each, to go out and Consume! Consume! Consume!
On what, stuff? Where does this stuff come from? Mostly not from this country! Cars, shoes, clothes, even some mother fucking FOOD is foreign! So now all that profit heads right out the door further enriching other countries and further killing ours. But please, WE must help other countries. We are the most "powerful and prosperous" country, it is our responsibility to make sure that the poor Mexican farmer keeps his avocado farm from going under while at the exact time our farmers are forced to sell out to make way for more subdivisions that people will pay way too much for and get into debt. Problem solved, print more money.
Or how about unofficially going to war to fight the "T" word, something we will NEVER be able to wipe out as they are not condensed to just one country, so let's stay in war forever. Like you said, "why not bring back some of the troops in peaceful nations" and "save some money." Or better yet, why not bring back ALL of the troops in all peaceful nations as well as the nations that we have no right or even better, AUTHORITY to be in and save billions! Let's bring them home and protect our borders (I just read a bill that Obama was on to grant illegals amnesty on many different levels. Let me find the link for you) and stop trying to dictate democracy to everyone. Here's basically a sum of that bill, I was searching all morning... I come across this stuff all the time and never think to bookmark it. Basically, all my findings in a nutshell:
His immigration and amnesty track record proves the reports findings. Sen. Obama supports amnesty, the McCain-Kennedy Comprehensive Immigration (Amnesty) Reform, and wants to give welfare and Medicaid to illegal aliens.
Yeesh, the fact that he would support anything by McCain is alarming. Like I've said before, at least McCain wears his corruption right on his face!
"And if there was no government they would completely fuck us over. Like paying people in china $0.17 an hour cause there is no government control over there."
No government control? Sounds like complete and total government control! Obviously, the rest of the wage is going straight to their corrupt government because the Chinamen (yes, I know, not the preferred nomenclature) are LETTING them. Also, again, we're not talking about no government, we're talking about limited government as those clever fellows, Thomas Jefferson and Benny Franklin suggested.
I think that you're stuck on these corporations but don't you think the problems run deeper? You have the NWS (News World Corp) which owns FOX and they have foreign interests contributing to them. Which then of course filters down to the MSM. They have the POWER to sway and/or down right tell Americans how it is. Do you really suppose what happened/is happening to Ron Paul is fair? They were pretty adamant that Guiliani was a front runner and he didn't do shit.
Before any of the primaries even started, before ANY votes were cast(!!), we were told RP was a fringe candidate and had no chance (even when text message polls after debates proved otherwise!:)), and 90% of Americans believed it. Though I truly believe there are more than 10% of us.
So then when they put him in a media blackout, not only not acknowledging him but not even saying anything negative about him... nobody knew/knows he existed/exists.
If you look at his election down in Texas for his seat back in Congress, he won his district by 70% because people know of him and his stance. So much for McHillama wanting the best man/woman to win. They're all scared of him!
If the American people TRULY took the time to research him, there would be no contest. He crosses all lines and parties, he applies to EVERY American. Well, maybe the corrupt ones would have a hard time swallowing it but like you said, it's just a private few of those!:)
But anyway, you have to ask yourself where are these greedy corps getting their funds from? You also have to ask if Americans would have supported this war if they knew they were going to be directly taxed on it by creating money out of thin air that the Constitution directly prohibits? Why are we intentionally shipping all of our jobs out of this country and sending our money straight to the foreigners? Why are we talking about a North American Union for Christ's sake!?!? Why would our government, who has the authority to coin it's own currency, approve the Federal Reserve Act so many decades ago and continue to borrow money from them that has interest on top of it (so it can NEVER be paid off, EVER) from a group that has nothing federal about it? Why why why?
It runs much deeper and those candidates that say this and that and how they're going to bring change are really all the same only taking different routes to an inevitable end.
"...And I'm not talking about having to pay income taxes, because that's just a civic duty at this point. Somebody's got to pay to maintain roads, clean water, support the military, etc."
Don't even get me started on the income tax because that is the greatest example of personal freedoms that have stripped! (Not one dime of this goes to roads, schools, etc. We have other taxes, constitutional taxes, for that. It goes to pay off the debt which can never happen and you're right, it helps fund the military that we should not be fighting in the war in the first place.)
Well where do I even begin to start on the rest?
A few freedoms that I, personally, would like to get back (some small, some much greater):
-The freedom of not being taxed on my labor. My labor is between my employer and I. I labor, my employer compensates me. I would like to have that six or so years worth of paychecks to have not been raped.
-The freedom (and right) to keep and bear arms. You know my family, we are gun people! Any law of gun control is a direct violation.
-The freedom of driving in my car sans seat belt. This should be MY CHOICE and I should not be fined if I CHOOSE not to wear it. And I have been ticketed.
-The freedom of being able to drive "reasonable and prudent." Remember that? MT's state government said, "No thanks, I'm just fine and dandy" when the federal gov stepped in and said they needed to do away with the no speed limit. Instead of respecting the state govs decision, as they are Constitutionally suppose to do, they withheld money that MT was entitled to, until they complied.
-The freedom to carry liquids on an airplane! This was incredibly obnoxious and inconvenient but hey, all in the name of "security," right?
-My freedom to buy groceries, a necessity of life, in my state without being taxed on it. I paid a few hundred dollars last year to the state of Idaho in the form of a 6% sales tax on GROCERIES. Not fast food, not take out. Bread and milk. When trying to further write more legislation to keep this atrocity (remember, I testified to kill it?), Idaho now says they cannot do without this money, they need it. Why is that I have to worry about budgeting and saving my money but not our government? They just print more money and tax us to get what they want.
Some scarier freedoms that nobodies acknowledging:
-My guess is when and not if Real ID Act gets voted through and I don't comply, my freedom to fly on an airplane, to get a driver's license, or to walk into a federal building is GONE.
-My freedom of depositing a large sum of money in the bank (I wish). I would not be envied as a girl who came into good fortune but rather flagged on someone to watch.
-My freedom from the "Homegrown Terrorist Prevention Act." Need I say another goddamned thing more? The name speaks for itself.
-My RIGHT to habeas corpus. And I quote, "through which a person can seek relief from unlawful detention of himself or another person."
-My freedom of privacy. Through the unfortunately named "Patriot Act," no longer does my privacy mean anything all in the hopes of fighting terrorism. You can also tie W's new bill he's pushing for, the eavesdropping bill, in this though I'm sure he came up with a snappier name.
"Again, I'm not saying the government is perfect, in any institution that large there's going to be waste."
Exactly, our government was never suppose to be LARGE. It was a limited open government run by We the People. I just can't understand why you keep acknowledging it's corruption and greed (eight different times!) and claim you don't like it but yet you have ONE candidate who agrees with you on it's corruption and actually wants to DO SOMETHING about it and you're like, "No way! Gotta vote for the guy who's gonna perpetuate it!" Help me out here because you're a reasonable and educated person.
I suppose I should conclude now. I've always considered you to be a color-outside-of-the-lines kind of girl, that's why I like you. You're college educated but making a living on something you love to do out of your house with a boyfriend who was creative enough to do the same, and do well, from your 'earth loving' folks that emphasized on education to your shaggy bro who just roamed China for six months studying martial arts and alternative medicine... Here we have a candidate whom the news claims is "out there" but compared to the others and candidates past, he seems to be a guy who colors outside of lines too. He doesn't conform to what "they" want him to be.
For the first time in a looooooooong time, we have ONE candidate who has only and will only vote for the Constitution EVERY TIME. He has twenty years and change of records that proves it. No matter how small and insignificant, if it smally violates the Constitution, he vetoed it.
Not any of the other candidates, not even America's sweetheart, Obama, can say this. You mean to tell me of the few candidates we have left you cannot vote for the guy who has YOUR best interest in mind?
If you can still say no way then I whole heartily agree with my dad when he says (not sure if it's his or if he read it somewhere),
In the end, America will get the government it deserves."
I'd like to add, her rebuttal didn't want to argue "seat belt" and "speed limit" laws that were too "insignificant" and "unimportant." I explained back to her that she should absolutely want to argue such unimportant laws as the masses would be much more hesitate to be herded onto the train cars if it weren't for the small "harmless" laws to get us accustomed to the idea. I should mention at this time, she is Jewish.
Also, since this debate, Real ID has not been widely received (MT governor BITCH SLAPPED it and other states have followed suit!) BUT fear not, it's coming back in different names, the newest that I know of is the Secure Security Card Act.